Conventional radar (secondary surveillance system) at my local airport is down. The air traffic controller are using radio communication to contact aircraft.
I have introduced the airnav radar box and they where impressed with the accuracy.I have installed one at the air traffic control center.
they are using the airnav radar for tracking flights.
how reliable is the airnav radar box?should the air traffic controllers rely on it for postion,altitude,callsign etc..
Quote from: dealer on October 31, 2008, 10:08:34 PM
should the air traffic controllers rely on it for postion,altitude,callsign etc..
No way.
why no way?
air traffic controllers only monitoring the flights
if it is just for monitoring and not interferring it might be ok. but to use it to direct aircraft their should be a proper radar in place:-)
Although RadarBox is being used by hundreds of professionals it was not designed/certified for air traffic control/traffic separation so it cannot be used for air traffic control purposes.
AIRNAV RADAR BOX advertisment on airports of the world said it can be used for medium sized airports/airfields for tracking purpose.
so now does this mean your AIRNAV RADAR box DOES NOT broadcast accurate information.The purpose is to collect information such as callsign registration altitude dest and origin and not to vector any aircraft
Quote from: dealer on October 31, 2008, 10:16:17 PM
why no way?
air traffic controllers only monitoring the flights
Neither RadarBox or the "other" Mode S virtual radar give any indication of the accuracy, or otherwise, of the reported positional data. Using such a device to maintain separation between an aircraft supplying accurate GNSS positional data and one using INS/IRS position fixes (with the potential for significant drift error) could have catastrophic consequences.
Quote from: dealer on November 01, 2008, 06:33:48 AM
AIRNAV RADAR BOX advertisment on airports of the world said it can be used for medium sized airports/airfields for tracking purpose.
so now does this mean your AIRNAV RADAR box DOES NOT broadcast accurate information.The purpose is to collect information such as callsign registration altitude dest and origin and not to vector any aircraft
There is a huge difference between "tracking" and "providing an ATC Service"
I will give you an example - at airfields I have worked at, the Visual Control Room (VCR) has a slave display of the radar used by the controllers downstairs on Approach. The VCR display is to give the Tower controllers situational awareness of the traffic situation, particularly with aircraft on final approach out to about 15 miles. Even though this display is coming from the same source as the radar displays in Approach, the ATC orders specifically state that the VCR slave display
cannot be used for providing a control service. The display is not calibrated in any way and therefore cannot be used for providing a separation service.
An exception was granted to allow controllers to pass traffic information to each other using this display, but it was not permitted to give an aircraft traffic information based on the VCR display.
RadarBox can be used for such "situational awareness", but not for control or traffic information to aircraft. Remember, you are not going to see aircraft on the map if they don't have full ADS-B. It's always the aircraft that you can't see that are the danger.
i disagree with Davereid because when the aircraft equipped with ADS-B broadcast signals and the radar box recieves and decodes it , i get an accurate information on the radar. we have contacted pilots and asked them of their altitude callsign registartion v rate etc.. and we compared it with the information on the screen it is exactly the same.We know that non ADS-B equipped aircraft cant be shown on the screen we are just using it for situational awareness and tracking and not for control.it is just amazing we get precise information on the radar!!
Hi dealer, why are you asking these questions if you're just going to contradict or argue against what is said in the answers given?
so whats your answer on the reliability of the airnav radar box coastguardJon???
It can only be as accurate as the data information it is receiving, GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Dealer
Have a read of this little thread: http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=1553.msg12230#msg12230 (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=1553.msg12230#msg12230)
Hope it helps.
Rod
I know I haven't got one yet (RB), so probably shouldn't be sticking my neb in, but does anyone else find this thread, and dealer's questions and understanding of the RadarBox rather disturbing?
I have renamed the subject of this post as may confuse people. Furthermore the username dealer does not mean he is the dealer in RadarBoxes. That just his username. Infact we know he works in a ATC.
At present ADS-B is not used by ATC as source for vectoring aircraft because there are still issues regarding the data being correct and security.
Quote from: CoastGuardJon on November 02, 2008, 01:00:24 AM
I know I haven't got one yet (RB), so probably shouldn't be sticking my neb in, but does anyone else find this thread, and dealer's questions and understanding of the RadarBox rather disturbing?
Yes, I find the questions and the answers a little confusing. Dealer seems to want somebody to say that RadarBox doesn't provide information accurate enough to provide an ATC service. Well, it might, but it might not. For anybody to think that they can pay GBP 399.00 and then provide an ATC service is rather ridiculous, which makes me think that Dealers original question is just there to stir things up, as the original title "How reliable is RadarBox" is guaranteed to draw visitors to the thread.
I was recently involved in a project to upgrade an ATC training simulator, and this cost 100 times the cost of a RadarBox - this was only an upgrade and it didn't involve the trainees controlling real aircraft.
No, I'm sorry, but I feel that Dealer is here on the forum just to cause controversy and to get a "statement" from AirNav regarding "reliability" so that this can be used out of context elsewhere.
Dealer, if I am wrong and you are genuine, then I would take a little time exploring the meaning of "corporate liability" if I were you!
Quote from: dealer on November 01, 2008, 09:45:01 PM
i disagree with Davereid because when the aircraft equipped with ADS-B broadcast signals and the radar box recieves and decodes it , i get an accurate information on the radar. we have contacted pilots and asked them of their altitude callsign registartion v rate etc.. and we compared it with the information on the screen it is exactly the same.
Feel free to disagree :-)
Most ADS-B-equipped aircraft
do give out accurate position reports. Unfortunately that's a bit like saying if most of the people drive the right way up the motorway then that's OK ...
Clearly you have never had, for example, British Airways 767s or Lufthansa B733/B735s on your RadarBox at the same time as they are visible on approach - otherwise you will be aware that they commonly exhibit ADS-B positional errors of up to 1nm (or more).
For a RadarBox to be even considered as an aid to maintaining aircraft separation,
all ADS-B-equipped aircraft under ATC control would need to provide accurate (i.e. GNSS-based) positional data, not just most.
What's hard to understand about that ?
Quote from: AirNav Support on November 02, 2008, 01:25:49 AMFurthermore the username dealer does not mean he is the dealer in RadarBoxes. That just his username. Infact we know he works in a ATC.
I did not think he was a dealer as in trader.
It's the fact that "dealer" purports to be involved with ATC that I find his understanding so disturbing - after all (unless I'm totally off the beam here) the RadarBox is totally passive, does not broadcast (see reply#5 in this thread) anything to anyone, it just analyses and interprets the data being sent down by aircraft. I would hope a trader would be aware of this, but for someone claiming to be involved in ATC to be asking and arguing in this way I find seriously worrying!
First of all i am NOT involved what so ever in real ATC.I am looking for answers if the AIRNAV RADAR BOX is reliable for ATC purposes thats all period!!May be my explanation was confusing but you dont have to throw harsh words.
Instead of getting help i got humilation
I guess the best place to ask for help is airnav support.
goodbye
I am going to lock this post incase.
Anyhow I don't think any harsh words were thrown at you, and they were only done when you refused to believe what development and other members told you.