I live in Oz and there is some talk of a new tracking system who's acronym I can't remember. But it is BETTER than radar.
Basically it tracks all aircraft through something like a EPIRB/ELB/(what ever they are called where you are). This data is flying around (no pun intended) and other aircraft get this and it builds a 3D map of things around you.
Great! They will be &*^&*&^ expensive I presume.
Could the Airnav radarbox do the same kind of thing? If each plane had a transponder with position and altitude in them, and each plane had one of these boxes, would that work?
Why I am asking is that laptops are nearly at the stage where they are SSD and cheap enough that you could get one with a small enough SSD drive to put airnav on and maybe a couple of other navigation things, and mount it on the pannel of the plane.
Yeah, ok, I've just lost ownership of the idea, but...... Could it work?
I think it would need to bit a bit "cut down" as: As it is, it needs a fairly beefy machine to run it at a good rate, but, the future holds many suprises.
Ok, that's it.
Bye.
:)
I thought EPIRBs and ELBs were emergency locator beacons activated by a downed aircraft ?
True, but the transmit the position.
There is talk that something LIKE them will be introduced to all planes so they constantly broadcast their location. Other planes receive this data and construct a 3D picture.
Since Airnav Radarbox does that part, all you need to install in the plane is a transmitter to broadcast your position/height.
The 406.MHz ELT is the only one that sends the position location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon
You lot aren't reading what I posted.
There is talk that here in Oz, all planes will transmit their position/height at all times. This system is an open one where pilots are responsible for their position.
To do this, they need a transponder to transmit your position/height and a receiver to receive this data. If you get close to another plane, you are told.
So, my question is: Can the "airnav Radar box" do the receiving part of this?
We can't answer that without knowing the details of this proposed system.
Though at the moment RadarBox only listens to the ADS-B frequency of 1090mhz at the moment. So if the data is on another frequency then RB will not pick it up.
Probably something like the BlueSky network, that uses GPS and Iridium.
Quote from: alley cat on May 18, 2009, 05:52:48 AM
I live in Oz and there is some talk of a new tracking system who's acronym I can't remember.
TIS-B ?
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/bulletins/media/atb_aug_05.pdf (http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/bulletins/media/atb_aug_05.pdf)
Radarbox cannot do this but this can..
http://www.radenna.com/ (http://www.radenna.com/)
Cheers,
Peter
Quote from: alley cat on May 18, 2009, 06:40:34 AM
You lot aren't reading what I posted.
There is talk that here in Oz, all planes will transmit their position/height at all times. This system is an open one where pilots are responsible for their position.
To do this, they need a transponder to transmit your position/height and a receiver to receive this data. If you get close to another plane, you are told.
So, my question is: Can the "airnav Radar box" do the receiving part of this?
I don't think you're reading what us lot have posted either :-)
The planned implementation of ADS-B by Airservices Australia is common knowledge.
It has nothing to do with EPIRBs or ELBs, it doesn't (AFAIK) feature ADS-B-in or TIS-B and it uses standard Mode S as the carrier for the ADS-B transmissions, which means that existing Mode S receivers like RB and SBS can already pick up and decode the signals.
See www.airservicesaustralia.com/projectsservices/projects/adsb/default.asp
Isn't TIS-B only received by the aircraft from a ground station?
Hi
Is this not TCAS.
Dudley
Hello
Nope is a bit of a short answer.
TCAS Basically tracks all aircraft through something (not like a EPIRB/ELB/) which is actually the transponder. This data is flying around (no pun intended) and other aircraft get this and it builds a 3D map of things around you.
The aircraft has the advantage, over the RB, of a 4 pole antenna on the roof which will give direction for mode A and C equipped aircraft.
You really need Mode C to get the 3D picture.
I read that Australia would like to develop this rather than build loads of radar sites. Presumably, encouraging all aircraft to have Mode S ADS-B feeding a satellite system.
Dudley
Quote from: dudbaker on May 18, 2009, 05:07:39 PMNope is a bit of a short answer.
OK, slightly longer answer :-)
TCAS essentially works the opposite way round to ADS-B.
With ADS-B, aircraft broadcast their own location, principally for the benefit of ATC but also, with systems such as TIS-B (not relevant here) for the benefit of other aircraft.
With TCAS, aircraft simply broadcast their presence and it's up to the receiving aircraft to determine where the transmitting aircraft is and decide whether the target represents a threat.
As far as I can see, the "new" system being introduced in Australia is simply bog-standard ADS-B.
Hi
OK, which is what I meant. The system is already here. I used an overlap between TCAS and ADS-B. The aircraft uses the TCAS display. My understanding is TCAS can use the ADS-B position rather than its DF antenna. At the moment there is only a fly up or fly down solution. As TCAS and ADS-B is developed then an addition of fly right or left solution is planned.
Dudley
Dave,
ADS-B... That's it. Thanks.
Well if all planes have "mode C" transponders in them, couldn't I put the Airnav Radarbox on the spare seat of my plane and take it with me?
I would get a real time 3D picture of what is going on around me.
But saying that, what I have seen, the program is pretty harsh on the machine, and most lappys won't handle it too good.
:)
What is wrong with using a mark-one eyeball!! :-)
Nothing is wrong with an eyeball.
"One peep is worth a thousand sweeps." I know.
This ADS-B system is being introduced, ok: Common knowledge. (Slightly new to me but anyway...)
As it may be MANDATORY, it needs two things. One: A transmitter with position and height. Two: A reciever.
As the radarbox already does this, I am simply asking if it would work as the receiver part of this equation.
Oh, I prefere to fly eyes outside the plane, but it is nice to have the ol' GPS there with moving map etc. The radarbox showing traffic nearby would be nice too.
That would be up to the CAA/JAA. Would they license a laptop on the spare seat of an aircraft?
Alley Cat
I think it would work but there a few points.
The other aircraft have to have Mode S. Not just A or C.
Mode S without ADS-B will only give a list of aircraft in the area.
ADS-B is required for position information.
The other aircraft do not know about you unless you are also using a transponder.
What affect would your transponder have on you RB.
Mode S equipment for GA is becoming cheaper all the time.
Australia may have to make Mode S compulsory if they want the system they are planning, to work.
Dudley
Malc,
I am asking if it would work. Not who's permission. It is only idle curiosity.
Don't forget, I'm a cat. Naturally curious.
;)