I seem to get very little network coverage over London and west to Heathrow. I would have thought that there would be plenty of RBs active. Is there anyway one can see who is connected to the server at any one time, therefore, work out the coverage of the network?
J.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/network2.php shows active locations.
Red pins are real locations.
Interesting. The blue pins are taken from the IP address? Surely that must be the address of the ISP. There are very few red pins around which would explain the patchy coverage I have from the server in the London area.
J.
London has very good coverage Jeremy.
On certain days even heathrow ground traffic is seen. What is your location Jeremy as we think probally your getting signals (albeit Mode-S ones) from that area and hence any traffic downloaded from the network is ignored if you are picking it up.
Newbury and yes, I do cover that area but probably not low down. Sometimes I lose the final approach into Heathrow. I can see half a stack at Biggin, half a stack at Lambourne and nothing approaching Heathrow on finals at the moment with the network down. I do see a little more with the network but not always. I do dee the ground traffic from the netwrk. Will my direct signals supress all the network signals in the rx area or just shared data?
J. 1557
Whats happening is that your probally getting Mode-S signals from those aircraft hence they are not shown.
You can test this your self by either disconnecting your antenna and then viewing the network traffic, it should cover London well.
Yes. You are right. I can see a little more with the antenna disconnected. So the direct mode-s signals are overiding the database signals and therfore taken off the screen. I see this also happening over Gatwick.
I have a feeling you are going to recommend that I add a pre-amp to increase my range so that I rely more on direct signals! I don't really want to do that!
I will see if I can get a better idea of at what height I lose the direct signal.
It is a shame that there is a clash between the two methods of input. Discuss.
J.
Quote from: Jeremy on July 12, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
Interesting. The blue pins are taken from the IP address? Surely that must be the address of the ISP. There are very few red pins around which would explain the patchy coverage I have from the server in the London area.
J.
hi.
i said this before forget about ip address i live in ireland if you follow my ip addresses it will give you, IP Address Location: Edinburgh, Edinburgh, City of United Kingdom
or mybe york or ouside london.i am with bt
from pat
I'm just north of Heathrow and I'm sharing data and I can see traffic almost down to touchdown. I've put the altitude filter in to only see traffic below 15,000 ft otherwise it's just too cluttered. You should be able to see what I can see.
Quote from: Allocator on July 13, 2009, 04:28:21 PM
I'm just north of Heathrow and I'm sharing data and I can see traffic almost down to touchdown. I've put the altitude filter in to only see traffic below 15,000 ft otherwise it's just too cluttered. You should be able to see what I can see.
I'm two miles South of LHR and also share data. With the use of the supplied standard antenna I get flights arr/dep LHR from about 200 feet. I don't tend to filter but will if the weather is poor and only LHR traffic is visible.
Further observations today. Traffic looked a little thin so I checked on the real time network map. There are only half a dozen stations shown active around Heathrow annot much around Gatwick. If those had an outside antenna then coverage should be OK but it could be they are on the small mag mount in which case coverage could be patchy, like this afternoon.
What we need is for more people to leave their RBs on during the day or for Airnav to give us an insentive to provide data for the database. Free upload allows free download??
J.
I am definetly seeing a little more traffic in these areas with database connected and outside ae disconnected. Presumably this is the clash of data Tech support suggested. If the 5 mins delay was not there then it probably would not happen! Why the 5 mins delay? If security was a problem then we as individuals would not be allowed to see direct surely?
J.
I live roughly between Newbury and Heathrow, and leave my RB on 24/7. However, I do not share the flight data. Call me a Victor Meldrew, but when I bought the RB, the deal was I get one year of network data reception inclusive, i.e part of my cash has paid for access to the network data. I can't see any incentive for me to offer my network data to all and sundry FOC ! When my one years worth of rarely used access to network data expires I will continue to not share my own network data - that is unless Airnav can think of a way to persuade me otherwise !! Bah! Humbug !
Kind of you to share those thoughts with us, Victor ;-)
Rod
Quote from: RodBearden on July 15, 2009, 09:33:23 PM
Kind of you to share those thoughts with us, Victor ;-)
Rod
Not sure if that was sarcasm ????
Must have been - Bah HUMBUG !!!!
I mean its almost like Pyramid selling isn't it ?? Airnav being at the top of the Pyramid. Only difference is the chap tempting you to invest in this bizarre scheme doesn't even pretend to offer you anything back, so I suppose it is worse in some ways. I suppose you can't blame a fool if they decide to throw their money away under the persuasion of the equivalent of a respected "friend! - but that does not make it correct !
And with that profound statement I shall now replace my soapbox in its orignal orifice, sign off, and go to bed with the good respectable Mrs Meldrew,
Neither I, nor Mrs. Meldrew, got were we are today by sharing our network data. Oh no.
Victor "I don't believe it !" Meldrew
So Victor, don't share your data, but at least be happy about it!
Are you the sort of guy who drives at dusk without any lights because they don't help you to see any better - never mind all the others on the road - lol
I share my data all the time that RB is running, even though I don't tend to use the Network data when I'm at the work location near Heathrow - I tend to filter out the traffic above 15000 ft too and zoom in so that I can see the Heathrow arrivals and departures and the 4 holds in detail.
Oi ! - I'm not that bad... I sometimes put my side lights on at dusk albeit only when I am in a good mood !
You're lucky to see all four holds, I only get to see half of Bovingdon.
Apologies if my last posts were over the top (they were). In all sincerity, can I ask if you pay for access to network data, and also what is your incentive for sharing your own data ? Is it purely for the airnav community to benefit at your expense ?
Dooes it cost you anything at all to share your data? I don't get charged for uploading. If it does cost you something, perhaps with mobile internet, then I completely sympathise.
Rod
Yes it does cost me. I do not get free internet access. I pay a monthly sum to my ISP for internet access, part of this is of course uploads.
Before this discussion degenerates into an infantile debate, I think the conundrum is that Airnav charge users for using the network service and also charging the same people for being the very substance of the network service. That is the thing I can't quite can't understand at the moment.
Can you explain the reasoning/logic behind this ?
John
I seem to have hit a sensitive nerve here but I think it has some good points to discuss.
After a year we are charged to download data which we are also submiting for the good of the network free of charge. Without us the network would not exsist. Is this data being used on a conmmercial level for the professional kit?
Having said all this i really appreciate the upgrades, as long as they are good and worthwhile, free.
Perhaps Airnav would like to comment and state their strategy.
J.
Jeremy: your question has been explained many times before on this forum. The cheapest and most fair way we could find to have the network feature available and with high reliability to all the users was to charge a minimal fee (just 5 EUR per month for it). An higher value would not be fair for those sharing data and a lower one would not help us with the expenses of maintaining a network of thousands of users daily.
RadarBox Network is the only existing ADS-B network worldwide nowadays, processes more than 5 millions messages per day and tracks over 5000 flights / 8000 aircraft daily. It is a complex work to maintain the server software and hardware that processes this data.
Quote from: Jeremy on July 15, 2009, 11:45:51 PMIs this data being used on a commercial level for the professional kit?
No.
AirNav have stated categorically that the commercial network is fed from a set of dedicated ground stations (I can't find the post but it's here somewhere) and not from regular sharers' data.
Assuming that's the case, they are to be congratulated - it must have been tempting to use the many enthusiast feeds to bolster the professional network, and it's good that they are resisting that temptation.
and of course we all believe them.....
nobody gets rich by being honest.
i share anyway because i like seeing what goes on in other places so i think it's only honest to share with others what i see.
ciao
frank
Quote from: eggplant on July 15, 2009, 11:14:20 PM
Yes it does cost me. I do not get free internet access. I pay a monthly sum to my ISP for internet access, part of this is of course uploads.
John,
It's all down to personal choice in the end I guess, but it is little different to all the people on the forum here who give up their time and use their Internet accounts to help out other people.
I'm in the fortunate position where the cost of the Internet connection isn't an issue for me, but time is! - but I'm happy to 'donate' that time to help others here, as I do with the 2 websites that I run on behalf of others.
I hope that you continue to enjoy your RadarBox and benefit from all those here who are giving up their time to help to further develop the software - for the best of the RadarBox community as a whole :-)
Thank you Airnav. I am sorry to ask thje same questions that have been answered before. A damn nuisance these new members!
Allocator - if you can see the four stacks at Heathrow so well why can't we via the network?
J.
Quote from: Jeremy on July 16, 2009, 09:23:14 AM
Allocator - if you can see the four stacks at Heathrow so well why can't we via the network?
J.
Maybe because I don't run RB 24 hours of the day? Take a look this evening when I've got RB running. If I deselect live data to only see what the Network is giving, I get an incredible amount of traffic around Heathrow :-)
Have you seen this video tutorial on the AirNav website? Loads of Network traffic in the London area including Heathrow and Gatwick traffic.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/radarbox/video/Heathrow.wmv
Just a thought, you aren't using any filters to just watch EGLL traffic for example?
Nice video.
No filters.
pic attached at 1745 this PM. Some aircraft seen but nothing out to the east of Heathrow.
Jeremy,
Its the exact same reason as before. You are getting some ADS-B contacts in that area although briefly. That area is like a transition zone where you will probally be getting Mode-S signals mostly and then the off ADS-B.
As you are picking up some, if you don't have an external antenna try and get one of those and mast amp and its likely you should be able to see that area from your own antenna.
The network is picking up all the aircraft there but it gets filtered when its used by your software. Any signals you pick up are priority and anything from the same aircraft on the network is then ignored.
Thanks Support.
I have an outside aerial, no pre-ap, and a polor diagram that covers the whole UK.
I am getting puzzled between ADS-B and Mode-s signals. I thought a mode-s signal was a 'packet' within ADS-B.
Is it p[ossible to switch off the priority so I can see either one or the other, without discon the aerial?
Surely, everybody must suffer this at the edges of their receive coverage but they do not know it?
J.
Quote from: Jeremy on July 16, 2009, 06:25:20 PMI am getting puzzled between ADS-B and Mode-s signals. I thought a mode-s signal was a 'packet' within ADS-B.
Other way round.
Explain?
J.
ADS-B data is contained in a 'packet' within a Mode S transmission.
Hi Dave, I'm sure you, Allocator or Tarbat will be able to answer this one (I've tried Search for it, but haven't come up with the answer) - at the bottom of Mylog, it shows number of messages per sec. - what exactly does a message consist of - a certain number of bits/bytes or what? What constitutes a "packet"
A short explanation from AirNav in this thread:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=271.0
Tried that link, clear as mud to me! Exactly what data is passed and encoded, sorry if this seems a dumb-arse question, but I'm having a job trying to understand this info., as sometimes it can be tens or even hundreds/.........
Quote from: CoastGuardJon on July 18, 2009, 09:31:53 PM
Tried that link, clear as mud to me! Exactly what data is passed and encoded, sorry if this seems a dumb-arse question, but I'm having a job trying to understand this info., as sometimes it can be tens or even hundreds/.........
See ICAO Annex 10, Volume IV - Surveillance and Collision Avoidance Systems.
Pages 1-268 :-)
Quote from: Jeremy on July 16, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
Is it possible to switch off the priority so I can see either one or the other, without discon the aerial?
Surely, everybody must suffer this at the edges of their receive coverage but
Obviously you can filter what you hear, but you can't get everyone to stop transmitting. They all transmit on the same frequency. ADS-B is an extended Mode-S feature, where the airplanes broadcast their lat/lon and other goodies. Meanwhile the little puddle jumpers are transmitting Mode-A and Mode-C, and a bunch are transmitting Mode-S without the extended ADS-B.
You could open your window and shout: "Shut Up!" Youre neighbors might call the hospital on you though...
Hi Dave, thanks for the reference, but £112 for the info. is a bit too much, a couple of quid, yes, but I'm not £112 worth curious!
http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=492
Many thanks for that link Steve. I've saved it as a pdf, so I can read at my leisure and (best of all) no cost!!!
No problem. A lot of the stuff can be ignored, like the 20 pages of altitude bit code and the Collision and Avoidance bo-jive chapter at the end.
Traffic in 3 of the 4 holds for EGLL at the moment!
Filters in to only show traffic below 15,000 ft