Can anyone tell me what the criteria is in Radarbox for the creation of the polar diagram. Does a certain number of flights have to be in range for a certain time etc? Just keep seeing the odd flight at a distance outside my plotted range but they don't increase the polar diagram.
Strange that Dean. You should be able to follow an individual flight and watch it extending the boundaries of your polar diag. Each spike of the diagram is set by a single flight, either outbound or inbound.
Which version of RB are you using? There's something not quite right about the polar diagram in the 3.0x betas....
Currently using 3.07 beta but it's been like that for a while (not sure how far back).
The flights will be showing a realistic origin / destination but may only show up for 20/30/40 seconds.
I am in a poor locus surrounded by hills so onlyexpect to pick up flights in most directions above a certain alt. The ones I've been seeing pop up are at 30K+ feet so again seem realistic - just that RB isn't extending the polar plot.
Do you have the polar plot when these appear? Turn the polar plot off and then back on again.
Follow up-
Just reset and watching. Flights which are obviously giving a continuous update are creating a polar pattern. Those at the 'fringes' not so.
Does this also mean that the polar pattern is non discriminatory - i.e if it picks up a flight 50 km east of my locus @ 35k feet then that is no guarantee that a similar flight at say 30k will be displayed i.e it's below my line of sight.
Thanks so far. just reset my polar plot and watching it grow in real time.
As can be seen from the attached a new flight has appeared which lasted a few seconds (say 15) then disappeared.
The flight from LEMG to EGNT is on a viable flight path and is now well within my receeivers range and en course so it wasn't a fluke or a mis read signal. It just seems that polar plot wasn't added to.
Not sure what you mean, are you saying that aircraft was being recieved perfectly fine, as we can't see trial behind it which explains the polar plots going back and forth as if your only getting the aircraft signal in a few areas.
I think he means that EZY6408 over mid Wales has a number of trail dots behind it but is not at the edge of the polar pattern in that direction. My experience is that if even one point appears after the location is received it causes the polar diagram to extend to that point, at least in v2.01. It's been a bit less certain in 3.0x releases, and the drawing also shows lines inside the plot edges on occasions.
That is a network flight. The polar diagram is working fine from what we can see.
Fenris is correct with the flight I was referring to. It's not a network flight as I had only hardware flights selected. I've attached another screen grab. As can be seen UAL906 is over South Wales but hasn't extended the radar plot to include it. The flight is showing in mylog as below:
AA6E81 UAL906 KSFO-KORD-EDDM N771UA B772 United Airlines 2009/10/21 06:11:28
Quote from: AirNav Support on October 20, 2009, 10:12:40 PM
That is a network flight. The polar diagram is working fine from what we can see.
If it were a network flight, should it not be displaying a * after the flight ID? I don't see one.
On the other hand, the trail points are quite spread out, so might it be that for some reason the * is not being displayed? The OP states that he was not running the network though, so maybe he just has an intermittent track on this aircraft.
Quote from: Fenris on October 21, 2009, 08:27:07 AMIf it were a network flight, should it not be displaying a * after the flight ID? I don't see one.
Perhaps he's turned the "*" off in Preferences.
These are ALL network flights, but I wouldn't expect the polar diagram to include them.
From my viewings, if an aircraft 'hits' the polar diagram on the side, it very often will not move it. More often than not, the aircraft will have to 'hit' the polar diagram on the actual tip of the spike in order to extend it. Also, if an aircraft is at low altitude it will be picked up on the map but will not cause any movement on the polar diagram by, most likely, timing out before it reaches it. Therefore the higher altitude of the aircraft flight level plus a direct 'hit' on the polar diagram the better.
Tarbat - good point, I'd forgotten about the preference for the *, but then the OP does say that he was using only the hardware not the network.
EK01 - I'm not certain of what you're saying, but my view is that if even a single position fix is received then that position should be part of the polar plot. It doesn't matter that the aircraft may have timed out without being tracked further.
Just to clarify - network flights display the * on my settings but I was definately only on a harware connection.
Quote from: Fenris on October 21, 2009, 02:12:42 PM
Tarbat - good point, I'd forgotten about the preference for the *, but then the OP does say that he was using only the hardware not the network.
EK01 - I'm not certain of what you're saying, but my view is that if even a single position fix is received then that position should be part of the polar plot. It doesn't matter that the aircraft may have timed out without being tracked further.
Brian,
What I mean is that if an aircraft is at low level it will still plot within the extent of your current polar diagram but it will not increase the extent of the current polar diagram as it will most likely timeout. However if the aircraft is at a higher level then its signals will be picked up by the RB for a longer length of time therefore it would be more likely to further extend your current polar diagram before timing out.
Ian
Ah right, I see what you mean.
Well in this case an aircraft with some trail points on the map is clearly being received locally but despite being outside the current polar diagram limits it has not caused the polar diagram to extend to its position.
I think that's incorrect.
Dean,
Are you 100% sure that network flights weren't on and the asterix removed.
As the trail plots are almost the same distance apart, which would suggest they are network flights (when you downloaded the next update)
If not its unsual to say the least
Hello
Do networkflights change the polar diagram or only the local flights from my own antenna ?
I am asking this because my polar diagram is changed enormously after i am using realtime network for two weeks .
Fred
Quote from: hofs on October 21, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
Hello
Do networkflights change the polar diagram or only the local flights from my own antenna ?
I am asking this because my polar diagram is changed enormously after i am using realtime network for two weeks .
It should only be local flights, the whole point of the polar diagram is to show you what you are likely to see without using network information.
If network flights are changing the polar diagram then it must be a bug.
Quote from: Fenris on October 21, 2009, 04:35:49 PMIf network flights are changing the polar diagram then it must be a bug.
Yes, its a bug that Airnav are trying to fix
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3498
Quote from: tarbat on October 21, 2009, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: Fenris on October 21, 2009, 04:35:49 PMIf network flights are changing the polar diagram then it must be a bug.
Yes, its a bug that Airnav are trying to fix
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3498
I get an error message from that link, it seems to be telling me that I may not be allowed to view it.
I've double checked and as the 2 screen grabs below show when I use the network then those flights are clearly shown with the *.
On Piccy 1 there is a non network KLM flight showing which isn't adding to the plot.
On piccy 2 another (albeit short lived) flight EZY40GF is clearly shown approaching Leicester which would be a correct path between Stanstead & Edinburgh.
As with my earlier comment these are appearing in MyLog so should only be hardware flights. I guess it's back to my original question to AirNav Support - is there a minimum time / height etc on a flight before the polar plot updates?
Quote from: Dean on October 21, 2009, 05:32:53 PM
I've double checked and as the 2 screen grabs below show when I use the network then those flights are clearly shown with the *.
On Piccy 1 there is a non network KLM flight showing which isn't adding to the plot.
On piccy 2 another (albeit short lived) flight EZY40GF is clearly shown approaching Leicester which would be a correct path between Stanstead & Edinburgh.
As with my earlier comment these are appearing in MyLog so should only be hardware flights. I guess it's back to my original question to AirNav Support - is there a minimum time / height etc on a flight before the polar plot updates?
Dean,
My understanding is that it would be based on line of sight and therefore the height of your antenna. In other words, the higher your antenna, the more signals are picked up by your RB from a particular aircraft and hence the further your polar diagram will extend. That would also hold true for the length of time a particular aircraft would remain in your MY Flights before timing out. However, even if you have your antenna placed high up on the roof, for example, it would still be affected by high buildings, trees, etc in the area which is why polar diagrams often plot much further in one direction than in another.
Ian
Flights come and go Dean and you will find "black holes" in odd areas across the country.
For example I pick up most flights heading to EGNX (my nearest airport) as they cross the south coast. You would think that I could then follow them all the way north but that rarely happens. The flights will come and go due to drops in altitude and changes of course, either of which are sufficient to temporarily mask the signals behind an intervening object or geographical feature.
With respect folks, those factors are not relevant.
If an aircraft is ever picked up at any position for long enough to receive the ADS-B position information and hence be displayed on the map, the polar plot should extend to that point.
In Dean's case, that does not appear to be happening for local flights.
Quote from: Fenris on October 22, 2009, 01:22:26 PM
With respect folks, those factors are not relevant.
If an aircraft is ever picked up at any position for long enough to receive the ADS-B position information and hence be displayed on the map, the polar plot should extend to that point.
In Dean's case, that does not appear to be happening for local flights.
Brian,
That is correct but if the particular aircraft reaches a distance point or drops to an altitude below line of sight then the ADSB signals would not be received by the RB although the aircraft might still appear on the map before timing out. The polar diagram would therefore not extend. Dean, what you could do is go into 'preferences' and extend the RB local time out settings which would then allow for any short breaks in ADSB signals due to temporary obstructions, etc and allow the signals to be re picked up when the aircraft is in the clear again without timing out which may then help with the extension of the polar diagram by that particular aircraft.
My view is that the timeout should not affect it, the polar diagram does one thing only, which is to show the *maximum* distance that an aircraft has been received at a given azimuth.
It matters not if the same aircraft disappears from view closer to you, it has still been received at the original position and that should be marked.
2.01 acted exactly like this, a single trail point would be included in the polar diagram.
I know this is an old topic, but I found some of the comments very intersting, and therefore felt that I should share my experience.
I use a small UHF discone antenna. The furthest point of my polar diagram is 208nm.
I have compared the altitude and the distance of the aircraft over the past few years.
My findings are that the aircraft takes longer to reach a certain altitude in the summer than in the winter.
I have also found that the aircraft seems to climb out of the discone's polarisation pattern at a certain altitude. Which happens sooner in winter than in summer.
It then follows that the longer the aircraft stays below that altitude the further it is plotted in the polar diagram.
Question: Would the slower climbing of the craft in summer have something to do with the density of the air?
John,
I am going to hazard a guess and suggest that in colder weather the aircraft climb performance is better and the contents of http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/AP4ATCO_-_Factors_Affecting_Aircraft_Performance_During_Takeoff_and_Climb may offer an explanation which I hope may be relevant to your question.
Alan
Your are right Alan,
Cold air has a higher density than warm air, that's by the way the reason why Emirates boss is complaining about the performance of the bigger dreamliner versions. In hot desert air the density and therefore the "air lift" and engines thrust performance is that low, that the dreamliner won't take off if full cargo is loaded in the airframe.
Ingo
Alan,
Very interesting indeed, so my assumption was correct.
We have mountains all around us except to the South. Table Mountain is about 5 kM to the West and the other mountains start at about 80kM to the east. To the North we have a small gap through which we see the BA flights to EGLL.
The aircraft have to gain altitude pretty quick to clear the high points.
To the South we see the flights to Anarctica.
Screen shot
Yes the surrounding terrain will impact on what you see as well.
Alan