I've sometimes enjoyed looking at network flights. I've always shared with the network, for sure.
My box has almost no overlap with any others - zero when it was in Colombia, and almost zero now in a large area of rural Texas. That area is about to get a lot larger, and including a chunk of northern Mexico just as soon as I get a proper mount for my new DPD antenna. And the amount of ADS-B traffic is increasing.
But, alas!, my network subscription is expiring. Like I said at the beginning, I occasionally glance at the network; but it's not a big deal. I can't justify spending money for this it. Especially when I can't log into the network remotely (i.e. when I'm not beside the box).
I would like to keep sharing with the network, so others can see "my" flights; but I am put off by the fact that AirNav sells access to my data. Why should I give something to AirNav that it turns around and sells?
I hope to come back to the network soon. But I'm not going to be sharing until Airnav gives RB users that share free access to the network. Go ahead and sell it to other people; but don't also bill your data providers!
I think this is pretty reasonable position, post, and topic. Last time I raised it, Airnav deleted the post nearly immediately. I think that's wrong, and that while Airnav is a great company, so long as it continues to be so proprietary and controlling, they will eventually be replaced by other options.
Tks for your post.
We fully understand your reasons but it is difficult if not impossible to control and give free access to users that are totally different.
Some users are in areas with zero ADS-B density with no flights and other in JFK/LHR. Other users could have a $1500 setup with antenna, pre-amp, mast and in superb conditions and other with the supplied antenna only. How would you distinguish between them and how would you "compensate" for those how share more or less? How would you control that they have their setups permanently on or off? A user in a low density area is the same as a user in JFK without and antenna.
Let's do some brain storming on this and we are sure we may reach something good for everyone.
Thanks for letting this thread survive.
I understand that "some users share more than others"; but I would still advocate for the principle that if your box is up and sharing, then you should have network access. This seems like the simplest solution to me, even if there is a 'tragedy of the commons' aspect to it when it comes to users who never share anything unique. Even those users that have no unique flights, however, still paid a significant price for their box.
But if Airnav can't see a way to offer "sharing parity", and continues to charge for network access, then I think that incentives might be offered to RB users that share. Clearly, somebody who has bought a box and is sharing (uniquely or not) probably shouldn't be in the same class of users as those who are only network subscribers. One possibility is to flesh out what these incentives for people sharing might be.
hello
I understand it does cost money for airnav to run the network but what about only having one choice to buy network (no choice between delayed or undelayed) and the only way to make it undelayed is to share otherwise it will have the delay. I dont know if this would be possible but I think it might improve the network since it would provide an incentive to share while at the same time giving airnav money to improve the service
Andrew
Quote from: orkney on April 15, 2010, 07:25:34 AM
hello
I understand it does cost money for airnav to run the network but what about only having one choice to buy network (no choice between delayed or undelayed) and the only way to make it undelayed is to share otherwise it will have the delay. I dont know if this would be possible but I think it might improve the network since it would provide an incentive to share while at the same time giving airnav money to improve the service
Andrew
A good suggestion Andrew.
Quote from: orkney on April 15, 2010, 07:25:34 AMwhat about only having one choice to buy network (no choice between delayed or undelayed) and the only way to make it undelayed is to share otherwise it will have the delay.
But that would penalise users in countries where it's illegal to share data, who would no longer have the option to subscribe to the undelayed network.
Quote from: DaveReid on April 15, 2010, 07:38:16 AM
Quote from: orkney on April 15, 2010, 07:25:34 AMwhat about only having one choice to buy network (no choice between delayed or undelayed) and the only way to make it undelayed is to share otherwise it will have the delay.
But that would penalise users in countries where it's illegal to share data, who would no longer have the option to subscribe to the undelayed network.
hello
I hadn't thought of that but I didn't think it could be that illegal since I even see some network flights in china.
Andrew
There will be winners and losers with most suggestions.
Quote from: orkney on April 15, 2010, 07:25:34 AM
hello
I understand it does cost money for airnav to run the network but what about only having one choice to buy network (no choice between delayed or undelayed) and the only way to make it undelayed is to share otherwise it will have the delay. I dont know if this would be possible but I think it might improve the network since it would provide an incentive to share while at the same time giving airnav money to improve the service
Andrew
I'll go with that idea Andrew.
I've not renewed my network sub. because as I only use it occasionally I can't justify the costs. Paying for a 5 min. delayed version seems particularly pointless to me however the realtime version at the right price would meet my approval. Nevertheless I do and will continue to share in the interests of the hobby.
Out of all the "extras" the one I would be happiest to stump up for would be Mlat should it ever make it on to the scene.
I'll throw my ideas in the mix (First forget about 5min delayed)
1. very simple, if the user has their Shared Box ticked then they also automatically have displayed live network data. Not shared no network unless they wish to pay monthly fee.
2. Bit more complicated, bring back the option that was never used. The part that recorded how many hrs/mins you share data for and in return you gained network time. As this option could not be 1 for 1 (as that would be same as above) then there would have to be a ratio, I'd suggest 2 to 1, so I share my data for 2hrs and gain 1hr live network traffic.
In option two you'd need to be able to manually turn on and off network so you can use your gained time when you want
Quote from: bratters on April 15, 2010, 08:33:22 AMI've not renewed my network sub. because as I only use it occasionally I can't justify the costs. Paying for a 5 min. delayed version seems particularly pointless to me however the realtime version at the right price would meet my approval. Nevertheless I do and will continue to share in the interests of the hobby.
Out of all the "extras" the one I would be happiest to stump up for would be Mlat should it ever make it on to the scene.
You're a more generous man than I am. The "your network subscription has expired" message popped up on my screen today. I dismissed it and then I went into preferences and turned network sharing off.
I know that Airnav isn't the Big Bad Wolf of evil megacorporations; but I still have difficulty with the idea of giving them my data without anything in return - especially after sinking hefty amounts into the box, a new antenna, and good cables.
Having thought about it a little bit, I still think that basic network access should come in return for sharing data. Now, if AirNav wants to sell add-ons, like 3D, I would not argue that that should come free. They can charge for that. I also would not object to modestly (e.g. US $20-30) priced periodic paid software upgrades if those upgrades provided some meaningful enhancement to the local or network services.
(In other words: If Airnav keeps enhancing the software and, eventually, you need to buy an upgrade to maintain network compatibility, I don't have a problem with that so long as it isn't too frequent and the upgrades are real - not just imposed for the sake of collecting fees.)
Quote from: perezoso on April 16, 2010, 07:56:32 PM
Quote from: bratters on April 15, 2010, 08:33:22 AMI've not renewed my network sub. because as I only use it occasionally I can't justify the costs. Paying for a 5 min. delayed version seems particularly pointless to me however the realtime version at the right price would meet my approval. Nevertheless I do and will continue to share in the interests of the hobby.
Out of all the "extras" the one I would be happiest to stump up for would be Mlat should it ever make it on to the scene.
You're a more generous man than I am.
Thanks Perezoso - nobody ever called me 'generous' before, at least not in business :)
The way I see it, sharing costs me nothing but hopefully it may benefit some of our colleagues here on the forum. As far as Airnav "selling" it, what they're offering to me is flights beyond those I get myself. Can't see anything particularly grasping about it - I don't buy it anyway.
When I bought the box, I knew the score - first year free then pay up if you want to continue, so nobody hoodwinked me.
Storm in a teacup frankly and life's too short.
The argument here, or my argument at least, is not that anybody has been hoodwinked. That's not the point.
What is the point, again in my mind, is whether or not charging RB sharers for network access is the best route to build a larger network and community.
My view is that Airnav is probably shooting itself in the foot with its current policies, because I suspect there are quite a few people like me (and unlike you), who expect a quid pro quo for sharing. With the status quo, somebodies will eventually build an open network. You already see the beginning of that happening. In fact, I continue to share data with one of those efforts
Like you, it's not something I'm obsessing over. I've just raising the point because I think we all value the 'community' and I (at least) see charging sharers for network access as a an impediment to a bigger network and community. That's all.
I have to agree with the points put across by perezoso. It is also interesting to see that Airnav has posted welcoming users thoughts on the subject.
As you (bratters) see the matter as a "storm in a tea cup" and clearly have no problems with sharing your data, then no need for you to worry about it !
My opinion regarding network access/costs... KIS (Keep it Simple)
One of the options below...
1) If you share your data you get free access to the network.
2) If there is to be a cost for network access make it a one off cost as per the PlanePlotter model, not an expensive continual monthly cost.
At the end of the day Airnav have to get there business model right as it is becoming a competative market which was not necessarily the case before now, with at least 4 receivers on the market and more are appearing each year and also independant networks are now also appearing so people now have choices whereas before they didn't.
At the end of the day the power is in our hands, the consumer/customer, if you don't want to pay for something then don't, invest in one of the alternatives, if you don't mind paying then continuing as you are. You now have the power of choice which was not always the case before.
Simplz!
I agree with the other postes. I would consider a reasonable yearly sub to network data, but I am loathed to pay inflated monthly fees. I just hate to think that I have been ripped off. I dont mind shareing my data but I expect something in return, after all I have invested a lot of money and effort to get the best system possible and if others can benefit , so should I.
Mike