We have good news for AirNav RadarBox users.
We have just started the process of developing a central database, maintained by users, with updated aircraft information. This has been a long time request and we are happy to start implementing it now.
The RadarBox client application will always look at this database for aircraft details first and only if the details cannot be found there it will try to retrieve data from the GAS central servers.
We have just created a closed discussion board on the forum accessible only to "Database Updaters" where all the discussion regarding new aircraft information will take place.
We are now accepting volunteers for this task. Feel free to send us a PM if you are interested.
Quote from: AirNav Development on April 27, 2010, 03:16:49 PMThe RadarBox client application will always look at this database for aircraft details first and only if the details cannot be found there it will try to retrieve data from the GAS central servers.
Presumably you mean that the RadarBox client application will:
a) interrogate the user-maintained database
b) if no data found in (a), interrogate the AirNav server (as at present)
c) if no data found in (b), interrogate GAS (as at present)
Or is your omission of any reference to step (b) significant ?
Correct.
Quote from: AirNav Development on April 27, 2010, 03:38:38 PMCorrect.
You can't answer an either/or question with "correct" !
I'm sorry for the not so detailed explanation.
The below statements are correct. Anyway and as usual we are totally open for changes/requests as per our users suggestions. The discussion is open.
a) Interrogate the user-maintained database
b) If no data found in (a), interrogate the AirNav server (as at present)
c) If no data found in (b), interrogate GAS (as at present)
Good news guys
I'm sure were going to get a lot of "what if" questions based around this unfortunately though.
Quote from: AirNav Development on April 27, 2010, 03:16:49 PM
, maintained by users, with updated aircraft information.
We have just created a closed discussion board on the forum accessible only to "Database Updaters" where all the discussion regarding new aircraft information will take place.
We are now accepting volunteers for this task. Feel free to send us a PM if you are interested.
Hope this means we're going to have some "backstop" check on who's updating and/or validity of the update,otherwise we're going to get in a free-for-all situation
Is it right to put the onus on a team of what would appear to be volunteers for "digging" out the information?
In my view this is a pretty big ask!
Rich
Quote from: Marpleman on April 27, 2010, 03:58:53 PM
Good news guys
I'm sure were going to get a lot of "what if" questions based around this unfortunately though.
Quote from: AirNav Development on April 27, 2010, 03:16:49 PM
, maintained by users, with updated aircraft information.
We have just created a closed discussion board on the forum accessible only to "Database Updaters" where all the discussion regarding new aircraft information will take place.
We are now accepting volunteers for this task. Feel free to send us a PM if you are interested.
Hope this means we're going to have some "backstop" check on who's updating and/or validity of the update,otherwise we're going to get in a free-for-all situation
Only authorized users (a closed group of volunteers) will be able to make and validate changes.
[[/quote]
Only authorized users (a closed group of volunteers) will be able to make and validate changes.
[/quote]
OK - thank's for the clarification chaps
Rich
Hi
Can we have some people to volunteer to help update the database, those people who have been moarning about the database would be good to start with.
Interested PM support
Quote from: abrad41 on April 27, 2010, 05:11:23 PM
Hi
Can we have some people to volunteer to help update the database, those people who have been moarning about the database would be good to start with.
Interested PM support
Yes.
Put their money where their mouth is.
from Pat
Quote from: SWORDFISH on April 27, 2010, 05:55:54 PMPut their money where their mouth is.
Come again ?
I'll happily add to the several dozen updates I've already submitted on this thread: www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4285.0 but I didn't realise we were expected to
pay for the privilege !
PM sent
Thank you
ACW367
Quote from: DaveReid on April 27, 2010, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: SWORDFISH on April 27, 2010, 05:55:54 PMPut their money where their mouth is.
Come again ?
I'll happily add to the several dozen updates I've already submitted on this thread: www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4285.0 but I didn't realise we were expected to pay for the privilege !
Dave,
Aren't you wasting your time by making all those posts? Does anybody do anything with this information? I don't recall anybody saying that they are updating their database using your posted information - might be wrong here and I'm interested to hear if I am.
Wouldn't it be just as easy for you populate this proposed database instead rather than posting to the thread you refer to?
Quote from: Allocator on April 27, 2010, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: DaveReid on April 27, 2010, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: SWORDFISH on April 27, 2010, 05:55:54 PMPut their money where their mouth is.
Come again ?
I'll happily add to the several dozen updates I've already submitted on this thread: www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4285.0 but I didn't realise we were expected to pay for the privilege !
Dave,
Aren't you wasting your time by making all those posts? Does anybody do anything with this information? I don't recall anybody saying that they are updating their database using your posted information - might be wrong here and I'm interested to hear if I am.
Wouldn't it be just as easy for you populate this proposed database instead rather than posting to the thread you refer to?
Just for the record - I (and many others I'm sure) are grateful to Dave for his notes on the database inaccuracies. As for the "Does anybody do anything with this information?" question. The answer is yes, and guess what I do with it ? Surprise, surprise - I update my database, although I'm sure users must have found many other uses for the info Dave supplies.
It'll be interesting to see how this idea of user-volunteer maintained database idea develops. Should it actually come to fruition I reckon Airnav will be laughing all the way to the bank. As I understand Airnav already gains revenue from users to view their own collective data on the network - and now it seems possible that the very same fee-paying users may be updating the database for AN free of charge too. Nice one Airnav ! Move over Sir Alan Sugar.
Quote from: Allocator on April 27, 2010, 07:35:41 PMAren't you wasting your time by making all those posts? Does anybody do anything with this information? I don't recall anybody saying that they are updating their database using your posted information - might be wrong here and I'm interested to hear if I am.
I've had more than enough feedback, on and off list, to satisfy me that there's a value in posting database updates.
Having said that, I know that there are others who are keen to have their NavData accurate and up-to-date but nervous about making updates which are liable to be subsequently overwritten with older data by the server - but at least AirNav will finally have to address that issue if the new arrangements are to work properly !
QuoteWouldn't it be just as easy for you populate this proposed database instead rather than posting to the thread you refer to?
I vaguely recollect offering to do precisely that (en masse, I mean, rather than piecemeal) :-)
I welcome this change.. I hope we can get something soon though. I keep making changes to my database and then have it re-written to.
Airnav.. any kind of timeframe before we have the logic in place so the user maintained database isn't written over (even if it's empty to start off with)?
Also, I assume this user maintained database can be maintained by ourselves as well eg. Just another sqllite database in the /data directory?
Quote from: DaveReid on April 27, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
QuoteWouldn't it be just as easy for you populate this proposed database instead rather than posting to the thread you refer to?
I vaguely recollect offering to do precisely that (en masse, I mean, rather than piecemeal) :-)
Yes, but was that 'offer' as in free, or offer as in 'contract'?
Well I've done loads of voluntary work over the years, for many different deserving organisations, but the last time I looked AirNav wasn't a registered charity :-)
Quote from: DaveReid on April 27, 2010, 08:22:10 PM
Well I've done loads of voluntary work over the years, for many different deserving organisations, but the last time I looked AirNav wasn't a registered charity :-)
OK, I understand where you are coming from - you are looking at a business proposition.
Quote from: Allocator on April 27, 2010, 08:39:27 PMOK, I understand where you are coming from - you are looking at a business proposition.
Well the term normally used is "business-to-business" (AirNav being one too, of course, as has already been pointed out). And I think we're talking in the past tense rather than the present :-)
Anyway I wish AirNav good luck - building a distributed database that supports multiple simultaneous contributions from users who don't always agree with each other isn't for the faint-hearted - I can vouch for that, having been running such a system as a pro bono project for a large, well-known aviation enthusiast society for the past 5 years.
Quote from: AirNav Development on April 27, 2010, 03:16:49 PMWe are now accepting volunteers for this task. Feel free to send us a PM if you are interested.
What criteria are you expecting these volunteers to use when approving updates? Visual confirmation? Referenced in another forum/database? Just trying to get my head around whether it's worth me volunteering when I very rarely eyeball any aircraft!!
For example, can I really trust the data posted in the Database update info (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4285.0) thread, without knowing how Dave has verified the data? No suggestion that Dave's data is wrong here, just wondering how we decide if data is valid or not.
Quote from: tarbat on April 27, 2010, 09:23:19 PM
No suggestion that Dave's data is wrong here, just wondering how we decide if data is valid or not.
Well thank you for the vote of confidence :-)
Good point though - ideally AirNav should be able to arbitrate between dissenting sources and decide who is correct. But then again, if they were able to do that, they wouldn't need help from you guys in the first place ...
Maybe the database needs a "How Verified" field, for the verifier to enter how they verified the data. Or maybe a scoring system, for several verifiers to score how reliable the data is.
When I was doing ACARS-only scanning, I used official sources for US and Canadian registries, and Airliners.net for the others. To identify the operator of an airliner (when the owner and operator are different) I simply used the flight information transmitted via ACARS.
I have a ton of American and Canadian aircraft listed here. I also have flight routes involving North America that seem to be much more accurate than what is in the AirNav database. I'd be happy to pass my CSV text listings to someone on the database team.
NF2G
QuoteI have a ton of American and Canadian aircraft listed here. I also have flight routes involving North America that seem to be much more accurate than what is in the AirNav database. I'd be happy to pass my CSV text listings to someone on the database team.
Why not PM support and join the group.
Quote from: tarbat on April 27, 2010, 10:22:37 PM
Maybe the database needs a "How Verified" field, for the verifier to enter how they verified the data. Or maybe a scoring system, for several verifiers to score how reliable the data is.
Most user updated systems will require a number of users to report the same change before it is accepted. A handy little icon to click that says "Report if incorrect" which allows you enter the new info, if known.
Airnav, have you got any kind of timeframe when the physical functionality will be available so we can maintain our own database without it being overwritten all the time? Even if the user maintained database isn't available, it would be nice to have the functionality in place to maintain the database ourselves.