Although I have the option ticked to download two photo's my RadarBox has only been downloading one all evening. Has anyone else noticed this? Has something changed on your end AirNav?
Paul@cyyb
Confirmed, have the same problem here. Two new aircraft this morning, each with only one photo - EI-EMM and G-FBKD.
Looks like this problem might have started YESTERDAY:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5480910063_28b7d02fb2_m_d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarbat/5480910063/sizes/o/in/photostream/)
EDIT: Suggest this needs an URGENT fix, as it's also putting rubbish into fields PT2/LK2:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5481530980_4983426cb6_m_d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarbat/5481530980/sizes/o/in/photostream/)
Quote from: prbflight on February 27, 2011, 06:22:53 AM
Although I have the option ticked to download two photo's my RadarBox has only been downloading one all evening. Has anyone else noticed this? Has something changed on your end AirNav?
Paul@cyyb
Confirmed here.
And again here............
We are taking a look at this.
The thumbnail for the first picture is also still always corrupted.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?q=d-abkp
Just downloaded 3C4970 D-ABKP
In my NAVDATA it now shows
PT Jens Mattner
LK http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Berlin/Boeing-737-86J/1822909/L/
PT2 Air Berlin
LK2 Jens Mattner
From our updater the latter should instead be
PT2 Jens Mattner
LK2 http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Berlin/Boeing-737-86J/1834452/L/
IE we have the two latest photos of the Air Berlin 737 selected in updater.
However the thumbnail that downloaded to my system was actually the thumbnail for ANET image 1810070 IE the thumbnail was NONE of the above and was generated by my own box doing a 'most popular' search of ANet independently of the server. This happens every single time. The thumbnail rarely matches the link that is the one that it is supposed to download. Luckily this time it was another pic of the AB 737, but due to the randomness of this search for a thumbnail, it could easily have also been one of the many pics of the Lufthansa 727.
We are checking this now.
Quote from: ACW367 on February 27, 2011, 01:29:27 PMHowever the thumbnail that downloaded to my system was actually the thumbnail for ANET image 1810070 IE the thumbnail was NONE of the above and was generated by my own box doing a 'most popular' search of ANet independently of the server.
Thumbnails come directly from the Airnav server, NOT from your own box doing searches of airliners.net.
So, for the one you quoted as an example:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/D-ABKP.jpg
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/D-ABKP,2.jpg
To get a different thumbnail, Airnav will need to change their server routines to retrieve a different image from airliners.net to create the thumbnail images.
Tarbat et all
OK so it appears to be entirely server driven, but it reinforces my point. The server thumbnail does not match in any way the server links and hasn't done since V2.0.
Lets try G-EUUA
Server links in DB updater that also download as links to Navdata
PT Giovanni Verbeeck
LK http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Airbus-A320-232/1538244/L/
PT2 Tommy Desmet
LK2 http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Airbus-A320-232/1475360/L
Now the Airnav thumbnail links for the same aircraft should be image 1538244 and image 1475360 I am sure you would agree.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/G-EUUA.jpg
image 1866032
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/G-EUUA,2.jpg - image 1687757
Lets go for one of the mil number ones 381C3B 27 Falcon 50 (PS this is the only hex in the entire updater with the distinct registration '27', so there is no way the server could be confusing hexes whilst trying to resolve photos)
Server links
LK http://www.airliners.net/photo/France---Air/Dassault-Falcon-50/1745581/L/
LK2 http://www.airliners.net/photo/France---Air/Dassault-Falcon-50/1323235/L/
Server Thumbnails
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/27.jpg - image 1677720 a HunAF Mig-29
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/ANLV_SV/Photo/27,2.jpg - Image 1787219 A Hungarian Mil-4!!
Now can you see that the server provides users with good links that match the ones from our updater, but then it ignores them and provides two completely seperate and often wrong thumbnails. The thumbnails should be 100% tied to the links.
If you double click on any displayed thumbnail on your box is will open an ANet page. This will be the ANet page for the photo which matches the Navdata link. It will have no bearing to the photo thumbnail that you double clicked.
In my personal opinion, I would rather the links were to the aircraft registrations page. This is what I do with my GAS import routines, creating LK and LK2 fields as follows:
LK = http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=G-EUUA
LK2 = http://www.airframes.org/reg/geuua
Tarbat
I believe it is the way it is because of the ANet T&Cs. ANet photos are not free to use. You must either use links or individually gain permission from the photographer. Airnav chooses the former option
http://www.airliners.net/usephotos/
"You may not use these photos on any web page, commercial or non-commercial, for profit or non-profit, without written permission from the photographer. You may however link to the photos in the manner described below."
"Finally, we ask that you mention Airliners.net where and when you use photos originally found on our site, whatever agreement you have with the photographer. It doesn't need to be big, just a small mention in whatever way you choose. As you might have realized by now, we do not make any money from selling photos, everything goes directly to the individual photographer. Our only form of "income" is your help in spreading the word about our website. Please respect that."
The Airnav software shows the thumbnail but credits the photo to the Anet photographer (PT fields) and links to the full size photo (LK fields) from the thumbnail. If you hover over a thumbnail it says 'Photo copyright by .......... Powered by Airliners.net'.
Of course at the moment the credited photographer is not the photographer from the thumbnail but of the background link. The photographer of the thumbnail therefore goes uncredited due to the bug.
So, who is responsible for generating the thumbnails on the Airnav server when the database team update the LK and LK2 fields? Is this the responsibility of the database team, or some automated process on the Airnav server?
It's obvious that the thumbnails do NOT currently relate to the LK and LK2 links, so that presumably breaks the T&Cs at airliners.net anyway.
And the thumbnails displayed in MyLog provide no copyright information, nor do they credit the photographer.
Quote from: tarbat on February 27, 2011, 03:47:30 PM
So, who is responsible for generating the thumbnails on the Airnav server when the database team update the LK and LK2 fields? Is this the responsibility of the database team, or some automated process on the Airnav server?
It's obvious that the thumbnails do NOT currently relate to the LK and LK2 links, so that presumably breaks the T&Cs at airliners.net anyway.
And the thumbnails displayed in MyLog provide no copyright information, nor do they credit the photographer.
Correct. It remains a bug. No human has any input to the selection of thumbnails (and hasn't ever) which is what I have been telling airnav for months. Hopefully now they will finally listen.
Hopefully now those here and in other places will realise that every displayed thumbnail including those of museum aircraft, cockpit shots etc are not within the hands of any updater, airnav programmer etc. But are entirely produced by some automated Airnav server routine that ignores all human input from the updater DB and does not meet ANet T&Cs.
Put simply its not us and has never been us updaters. Our hard work is ignored by the servers.
Quote from: ACW367 on February 27, 2011, 03:52:18 PMCorrect. It remains a bug. No human has any input to the selection of thumbnails (and hasn't ever) which is what I have been telling airnav for months. Hopefully now they will finally listen.
So why on earth would anyone in the database update team be willing to update the LK and LK2 fields if they know that the thumbnails will be out of sync, thus breaking airliner.net T&Cs. Madness (in my opinion). Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Quote from: tarbat on February 27, 2011, 04:01:59 PM
So why on earth would anyone in the database update team be willing to update the LK and LK2 fields if they know that the thumbnails will be out of sync, thus breaking airliner.net T&Cs. Madness (in my opinion). Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Because the idea is Airnav fix the damn bug. Such that the thumbnails provided to users are exactly the ones from the Updater/Navdata LK and LK2 fields which have had our human eye cast across them. This will make sure it is always the correct aircraft and we can subsequently change the links if it is not.
Currently it does not work this way and we have let airnav know many times. Although in the past my posts reporting the bug appear to have been misinterpreted as 'updaters selecting wrong photo again'
This was my last attempt to explain it to Airnav
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=5633.msg60574#msg60574
Your links really helped me to finally give Airnav clarity on the nature of the bug.
However, even when (if?) Airnav do finally fix the server routines to get the correct thumbnails, most users will already have thumbnails stored locally that don't match the LK and LK2 fields.
In my opinion, the database team should not have gone ahead with changing LK and LK2 fields without Airnav first fixing the server routines that generate thumbnails. In the same way that they should not have gone ahead and created aircraft records with duplicate AR fields without Airnav first fixing the ANRB client to cope with duplicate aircraft registrations.
I guess I have no right to comment really, since I wasn't able to join the database update team, so I apologise if what I'm saying upsets the team. However, as a photographer who has seen his photos misused in the past, I'm angry that photograph copyright and photographer credit are being lost.
Quote from: tarbat on February 27, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
However, even when (if?) Airnav do finally fix the server routines to get the correct thumbnails, most users will already have thumbnails stored locally that don't match the LK and LK2 fields.
In my opinion, the database team should not have gone ahead with changing LK and LK2 fields without Airnav first fixing the server routines that generate thumbnails. In the same way that they should not have gone ahead and created aircraft records with duplicate AR fields without Airnav first fixing the ANRB client to cope with duplicate aircraft registrations.
I guess I have no right to comment really, since I wasn't able to join the database update team, so I apologise if what I'm saying upsets the team. However, as a photographer who has seen his photos misused in the past, I'm angry that photograph copyright and photographer credit are being lost.
Tarbat
You are correct in all of the above. We were given the impression from Airnav that on creating our team in April last year, the responsibility for photos and thumbnails would be a human task performed by us. When it became clear very early in the process that the links we were creating did not affect the thumbnails users got we informed Airnav for them to correct it. Their response was that it would need a new software version. We again (in June 2010) asked them to prioritise that.
Here are quotes from two posts to Airnav from me regarding prioritsing the fixes
June 02, 2010, 09:44:31 pm
Another issue is that data we enter into AI, PT, LK, PT2, & LK2 are not being passed to users when they pick up aircraft for the first time.
I have recieved a B77L freighter aircraft on my box that I had previously updated correctly on the updater. It brought in the details I had entered in all the other fields, but for the AT field in database explorer it brought in the incorrect ICAO B77F code and then independently searched Anet for pictures with different picture links added to my local database explorer than the ones I had previously entered into updater.
The most important point is that incorrect ICAO codes are still being passed to users from somewhere other than the Updater. Users are still getting B77F, BCC7, BKC5 etc that just do not exist in Updater AI fields.Message 2 June 25, 2010, 12:45:58 pm
Let's use this topic to get a agreed list of priorities for Development when he becomes available again. .............
The priorities I would like to see:
1: Fix bug that stops AI/PT/PT2/LK/LK2 fields populating to users IMPACT: SERIOUS-Users are still getting old photos and random non-ICAO codesNeither of these issues unfortunately have seen any progress from Airnav development since June 2010. Both remain in the opinion of the Updater team SERIOUS unresolved bugs.
Quote from: tarbat on February 27, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
In my opinion, the database team should not have gone ahead with changing LK and LK2 fields without Airnav first fixing the server routines that generate thumbnails.
Tarbat you have to remember the thumbnail generation process has not changed since the first version, despite Airnav attempting (and failing) to change this with the creating of our team. Therefore the thumbnails you got prior to April 2010 also bore no relation to the LK fields in any Navdata including the the old 3 year out of date Navdata. Remember that new box buyers still get that old navdata supplied.
I seem to be the only one that ever noticed that from the moment I bought the box in 2007 the photo in the thumbnail never ever matched the LK fields in whichever Navdata I was using. And that even if I manually changed the LK fields it still had bearing on thumbnail selection.
At least now the LK fields have up-to-date human reviewed Links. Something the pre April 2010 Navdata did not have.
Thanks for the explanation.
Quote from: ACW367 on February 27, 2011, 05:26:19 PMWhen it became clear very early in the process that the links we were creating did not affect the thumbnails users got we informed Airnav for them to correct it. Their response was that it would need a new software version.
But it wouldn't need a new ANRB client software version. Just changes to their server routines to deliver the correct thumbnail. And I wonder if Airnav have permission from airliners.net to host thumbnail images on their own server?
All Airnav need to do is change their server routine that delivers thumbnails to use the approved method:
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE='JavaScript' SRC='http://www.airliners.net/photoLink.inc?id=nnnnnnn' TYPE='text/javascript'></SCRIPT>
The situation with "Only one photo downloading" has been corrected and tested. Tks for your patience.
Confirmed it is working now but I'm not sure about all the techno stuff that was being discussed further up in this thread. Thanks.
Paul@cyyb
Both users above have been emailed so we can include their requests in the next released. Tks again for your help.
Appreciate the update Airnav Dev...makes this system worth having and I'm appreciative of all the fellow members and their inputs too.
Best regards Dave