Post 30003 socket output format/emulation/compatibility

nortonbeak · July 04, 2009, 10:44:59 AM

Does that mean that RadarBox users will be able to supply data to the PP MLAT programme?

AirNav Development · July 04, 2009, 10:47:42 AM

The output from RadarBox is exactly like the output from SBS-1 from now on. So if you can do it with one application you can do with the other.

AirNav Development · July 04, 2009, 10:54:11 AM

In addition we would like to thank DaveReid as we have based our development on the information he provided on this topic.

tarbat · July 04, 2009, 10:58:38 AM

Quote from: nortonbeak on July 04, 2009, 10:44:59 AMDoes that mean that RadarBox users will be able to supply data to the PP MLAT programme?

Unlikely.

DaveReid · July 04, 2009, 01:29:32 PM

Quote from: tarbat on July 04, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: nortonbeak on July 04, 2009, 10:44:59 AMDoes that mean that RadarBox users will be able to supply data to the PP MLAT programme?

Unlikely.

MLat doesn't do its calculations based on the socket output (since there's no useful information output in the socket data for non-positional aircraft by either RadarBox or SBS).

So the answer is no, while socket output compatibility is desirable for lots of add-ons, on its own it won't facilitate MLat.

Having said that, I'd be surprised in AirNav aren't working on MLat solutions :-)

AirNav Development · July 04, 2009, 01:37:56 PM

Who knows if we are... :-)

nortonbeak · July 04, 2009, 01:46:49 PM

Ah! Now that will really be worth waiting for :-)

Fenris · July 04, 2009, 04:47:29 PM

Quote from: DaveReid on July 04, 2009, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: tarbat on July 04, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: nortonbeak on July 04, 2009, 10:44:59 AMDoes that mean that RadarBox users will be able to supply data to the PP MLAT programme?

Unlikely.

MLat doesn't do its calculations based on the socket output (since there's no useful information output in the socket data for non-positional aircraft by either RadarBox or SBS).

So the answer is no, while socket output compatibility is desirable for lots of add-ons, on its own it won't facilitate MLat.

OK Dave, so what does SBS send that is used by PP MLAT? I thought that it was simply the presence of a given aircraft near a given receiver being reported and then allowing for triangulation to obtain a best guess position?

DaveReid · July 04, 2009, 05:22:27 PM

Quote from: Fenris on July 04, 2009, 04:47:29 PM
OK Dave, so what does SBS send that is used by PP MLAT? I thought that it was simply the presence of a given aircraft near a given receiver being reported and then allowing for triangulation to obtain a best guess position?

MLat isn't triangulation, it's calculating position based on the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of the same signal from an aircraft being received by several different receivers. These time differences are minute and can only be resolved if the application has access to the internal 20MHz clock/timer inside the SBS (presumably RadarBox has a similar one too). In the case of the SBS, clever people than I have successfully decoded this data being sent from the box to the PC. AFAIK, they haven't as yet with RadarBox :-)

tarbat · July 04, 2009, 06:36:34 PM

Quote from: OKC-Steve on July 04, 2009, 05:59:42 PMThe hack is a program that acts like a T-connector. One end goes to the hardware box, one end goes to the Basestation program, and the other goes to the PlanePlotter program. It is basically a shim that sits between the Basestation and the hardware.

There's a similar hack available for the Radarbox, that ouputs all the USB traffic on port 7070. See http://mode-s.66ghz.com/radarbox-y-adapter.txt

Whether it could ever be used for MLAT is debatable.

Fenris · July 04, 2009, 10:27:02 PM

Quote from: DaveReid on July 04, 2009, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: Fenris on July 04, 2009, 04:47:29 PM
OK Dave, so what does SBS send that is used by PP MLAT? I thought that it was simply the presence of a given aircraft near a given receiver being reported and then allowing for triangulation to obtain a best guess position?

MLat isn't triangulation, it's calculating position based on the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of the same signal from an aircraft being received by several different receivers. These time differences are minute and can only be resolved if the application has access to the internal 20MHz clock/timer inside the SBS (presumably RadarBox has a similar one too). In the case of the SBS, clever people than I have successfully decoded this data being sent from the box to the PC. AFAIK, they haven't as yet with RadarBox :-)

Ah right, I didn't realise it was done like that, it's clearly capable of better accuracy than I thought it was.

AirNav Development · July 05, 2009, 05:43:46 AM

We need 3 volunteers to test the new 30003 output on the current beta (before we release it to the public). It is a requirement that you know and often use SBS-1 addons. Please send us a PM if you are interested.

tarbat · July 05, 2009, 04:34:13 PM

I'll have a file of a couple of hours, collected with sbssim, but I'm nowhere near Heathrow :(

Where do I find your SBSviewer program so I can test.

afo47 · July 09, 2009, 04:58:18 PM

which news ?
JLF